Sunday, March 28, 2010

Guest Blogger Jeremy Nelson Reponds To DWB Readers

Dear Jeremy,
I am a black woman very open to dating white men, but I'm not sure why I'm not being asked out by any? I don't ask guys out because it's not my style. But how can I "encourage" them to ask me out? Help!

Anonymous March 23, 2010 

Thank you for writing in and asking this question.   It's the #1 question black women ask me or complain about when they are wanting to go in the direction of dating white men.  I think most black women are so used to black men approaching them and asking them on dates, they automatically assume that all men are like this.  So they start to wonder why white men don't do it although some of them seem interested.

Here's the thing ladies: white men in general don't know how to approach women or ask them for dates.  They don't know how to be straight forward and tell a woman that they are interested.  A white man may smile and he may even talk and have good conversation.  However they won't approach a woman.  White men are just as afraid to approach you as you are to them.

Some black women may find it difficult to approach a white man because she may think "What if this guy is racist, not interested or simply goes off?"  Since you said it's not your style to approach men or ask them out, get to know them and feel them out.  Smile at the guy and see if he smiles back.  Wave to him and say hello.  Make some light conversation and  let him know you're interested or like white guys.  That will let him know that you're interested or and open to dating white men.  So at that point it's up to him to take the next step and ask for your number/email or just straight up ask you out.  I would say that if you do these things and he still doesn't step up,  he's not interested.  So just keep it moving forward and continue to look elsewhere.  You will find one eventually if you stay on that path.  Now if you're online, make small talk with them and do the same things.  People seem to be more relaxed and chill online.  It's a good way to get to know them and feel them out.  This is great because you can do so without having to give any personal information out about yourself without really knowing anything about them.

I hope this helps you out and answers your questions!

If you have more questions, maybe I can do another guest spot here or you can hit me up on my Facebook page Jeremy Nelson or on Myspace at BlackWhiteConnections

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for taking our questions.
There is a white guy that I like and I know he likes me too. The issue is whenever we meet up he wants to ask me very personal, deep questions. This makes me uncomfortable as I am not the sort to share myself so readily with someone I am not very close to, or whose trust has not been proven. This may not be an interracial thing, but just a dating thing. He is very handsome, well educated and a sweetheart, really a catch. Anyways, how can I let him know I am interested, but not interested in revealing the depths of my soul so soon? I have tried evasive actions, but he is so persistent we end up having a quarrel because I become annoyed. Thanks again.

Anonymous, March 24, 2010 1:40 AM

You’re welcome and thank you for writing in!

To be able to fully answer this question I would need to know exactly the questions he's asking because it's normal for people to ask personal questions when they are getting to know someone.  In fact that's how you get to know someone as well as build up and develop trust and the ONLY way to prove trust is to test it.  Now that doesn't mean you just meet someone and in the first five minutes it's okay for them to ask you tons of extremely personal questions such as sexual topics,  your phone number, rather or not you’ve experienced abuse as a child and things like that.  However IT IS normal for them to ask you things like, where did you grow up, what was it like growing up for you with x number of  brothers/sisters, do you have kids/how many kids, kids ages, your age, ect.  Sounds to me like you may have MAJOR trust issues and if this is the case you should deal with those before you step foot into the dating game and start developing something serious with someone.

Other than that, you’re meeting up with them and going places together, as well as talking on the phone, texting and emailing, that alone should tell the guy you’re interested.   However if he’s asking you questions to get to know you and you’re blowing up because you’re  uncomfortable with the questions, then that's going to tell him that:

a) You're crazy or have MAJOR issues and/or
b) Maybe you aren't as interested as you say or seem and aren't seriously looking as he is.

If you want to continue to get to know him or anyone else and you’re not comfortable with sharing certain bits of information, you need to tell them.  If they ask you a clarifying question to understand why you don't won’t answer certain things, then give them one.  Let them know that you would appreciate it if they respected you and your feelings enough not to go there.  Also let them know ready to you'll let them know.

I hope that answers your question for you and that I wasn't too harsh.  However  that's my style. I give advice raw and uncut in its purest form without a lot of extra things that can get in the way.   If you would  like to discuss this further, hit me up on Facebook
here or on Myspace at BlackWhiteConnections

In the online dating world I have received winks, and smiles, but usually no deeper conversation beyond that.  And a lot of these come from men in their late 50's plus.  Do I need to be the pursuer? Which is very tough for me.  I'd like to hear what I as a Black woman almost 40 need to think, do, in order to let guys know I am single, open to dating White Men preferably closer to my age (versus 55 plus).  And in person, I seem to get the smiles too and even the occasional hello's but nothing further, I am guessing it is me - but ... just not sure.

Anonymous March 24, 2010 9:09 AM

Thank you for writing in and let me tell you right now...IT'S NOT YOU!!!!

With these online single dating sites, a vast majority of the users aren't paying members. So basically all they can do is send smiles, winks and things like that. They aren't able to send an email to you or anything like that unless they are paying customers.  That's why on my site I'm going to set it up so that free members can send one or two emails per day to reach out to people.

Now I would say that yes, in some form you DO need to be the pursuer.  Many people online that are looking for someone on dating sites think all they have to do is post a profile, add a picture and wait for responses.  Now, if that's what you're doing it's not very likely that you're going to get many responses.  As  I said before, most members aren't full paying members and can't send you emails.  Also you're limiting yourself to the people who want to reach out to you. These folks may be dealing with their own issues.  Some of which may be not feeling comfortable about making the first move or not knowing what to say (don't you just hate filling out those blank profiles and figuring out what to say about yourself?).  So with online dating if you want more responses and possible dates,  you also need to reach out and be the pursuer as well.  Then let the guys email you!

Go through the profiles and see who you would like to get to know and actually read their profile so you can get a feel for them and be prepared to have something  to write back if you decide to email them.  When you email them just give a simple introductory  such as, how are you doing, my name is so and so.  I was going through profiles on here and I like what I see in yours.  I thought I would stop in to say hi.  If you noticed something in common with them on their profile, mention this then wish them a good day and wait to see if they respond.

Most dating sites will allow a non-paying member to send an email back should the paying member send out the initial email.  As far as letting guys know that you're single online that's easy because every site has a section asking if you're single, married, involved, or in a long-term relationship.  When they look at your profile they will know that you're single. Now as for letting them know you're single in person, smile, say hi and wave to them.  Strike up a conversation and let them know you're single and looking.  That will let them know you're available and that your interested.

If age and your openness to white men is important, place these points in your profile in the about me section.  Let them know exactly what you're looking for so there's no guess-work involved.  In person, be approachable smile, wave, or strike up a conversation to see If they are interested. If they are, then you can proceed about being single and not being able to find what you're looking for.  If the guy isn't picking up on your clues then make it plain to him and let them know that you're looking for a white man.  Because at this point he could be thinking  that you're just being nice and wondering why you are telling him all of this.  Once you tell him that you're only interested in white men a light should go on.  If he's interested, at that point it's up to him to take the ball and run with it.

As I said earlier most white guys don't know how to approach women or are terrified of doing it.  So the more you make things easier for them to take that ball and run with it, the better!

I hope this helps you out and answers your questions for you.  If you have more questions want to discuss this further with me I would be more than happy to.  Just hit me up on Facebook or Myspace .  I  will be more than happy to help you out as much as I can.

Hey Jeremy

I wanted to know what might be a couple of reasons that may stop a white man from asking a black woman out on a date although he is interested in her?

Anonymous March 25, 2010, 12:12 AM

Hey thanks for writing in with this question.  I'm surprised that I haven't been asked this one yet and I think it's VERY important for all of you beautiful black queens to know the answer.  Then you don't have to wonder if it's you or if white men aren't interested.

As I've said in some of my earlier responses and on my blogs, white men in general don't know how to approach women-much less a black woman.  There's also the issues of wondering if  you're interested or if you're a racist.  They're also wondering how you'll react if they choose to approach you first (such as looking at them crazy or going off).  Basically the fear of not knowing how you'll respond plays a big part in it.

Also there's the issue that perhaps his friends/family may be racist.  Then there's the issue of trying to explain his relationship to his family.  He may also believe that he won't be comfortable with some of the looks that the two of you no doubt will get while out in public.   And last but not least,there's the issue or concern of how your family will react and if they are racist.  You may be surprised of the war stories I have heard from other couples that have reached out and decided to go down this path.

I myself have never had anything extremely bad happen.  But  I will say that with every single black woman who I have dated over the past 12 years,  there has been at least one person that in her family that tried to step to me.  Most have been warnings like If I hurt her or don't treat her right they will beat me or even kill me and things like that.  I've never been the one whose been scared of threats.  Let's just say that I'm well known in the streets and every woman that's been with me has always felt protected.  Besides, I'm a gentleman and I don't treat ANY  woman in that sort of manner.  So connected friends and family members never had anything to worry about.

Thanks again everyone for the questions and thank you once again Selena for inviting me to do this guest spot on your blog.  Everyone, be on the look out for BlackWhiteConnections this summer because we are  doing some MAJOR things that have NEVER been done before and will blow your mind!



  1. Speaking as a single white guy who just started dating IR last year, I would have to disagree with Jeremy's statement, "white men in general don't know how to approach women or ask them for dates."

    That seems to be a bit of a pat answer from my perspective as most white guys I know (I include myself) would not be anxious about asking a white, Hispanic or Asian woman out, but the the anxiety level goes up considerably when you're thinking about asking a black woman on a date for the first time.

    It's because, 1) there are a lot more undercurrents happening in the conversation because of history and culture, and, 2) the chances of rejection (perhaps loud, public rejection) are seen as far, far greater.

    I am no longer cautious about approaching a black woman, but the first couple of times were tough. I think you're doing a disservice to black women by simply explaining it (this cautiousness) away by saying that white men are not good at asking any women out, regardless of race.

    I want to be as candid as possible here and tell you that the fact that it was a black woman who was the object of my desire did make a huge difference in my approach. I cannot imagine that I am unique among white men in this regard.

    Now, I want to add in closing that taking that chance was well worth it from my point of view. A BW and I are now a serious item.

    But, those first couple of times were admittedly difficult.

  2. I'll have to co-sign Anon's 1:30pm answer and analysis to White men not knowing how to approach women, especially bw.

    Most wm I know and have seen don't have a major problem asking out ww and non-blk groups of women. It's when it comes to bw that the issue becomes a bit trickier, due to the history in the States.


    The wm/bw awkward dance is mostly with Americans in the USA. I've been to several European countries and believe me, the wm there had no problem approaching and asking out bw if they want to.

  3. You know, not to pile on here, but I'm also in agreement with Anon and Nija. There are millions of white guys with white families that somehow managed to ask their wives out on a date, and it continued from there. There are also a great many white guys with Asian and Hispanic wives in the United States.

    White guys with black wives? Not so much. I think shrugging this result off to your opinion that white guys have trouble asking any woman out just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

    First, it has been my experience that a fairly high percentage of black women just don't date outside of their own race. My guess is around 70%, just based on my own experience.

    White men either know this from experience like me, or guess it intuitively, and so a lot of impulses about asking a black women out on a date get tamped down pretty quickly after a moment of reflection.

    Besides the aforementioned cultural/historical issues that dog any white man/black woman first meeting, there is also the fact that many black women have this hard look on their faces all the time, and it is not exactly conducive to a guy engaging in conversation with them. I understand what it is; it is the body language armor that a lot black women wear because of where they come from, etc., and my girlfriend did the same thing. She wasn't even aware of it; it just became part of her public face a long time ago. It's almost like they think you're running some kind of game on them, or, they're waiting for the other shoe to drop, the one that's going to prove that you really are a jerk. And like I said, I understand where that comes from. But, to a lot of white guys, it serves as a clear signal that black women are not interested in conversation with us.

    So, again, more lost opportunities there.

    Look, I am in a monogamous relationship with a wonderful black woman I love to death, but we almost didn't even go out on that first date, because of a combination of all of these issues.

    So, respectfully, I must disagree with that statement that white men have trouble asking any woman out, regardless of the race of the woman. It is simply not true. And to insist that it's true is providing misleading information to the black women you are giving advice to on this blog.

    I know that I prefer to have accurate information when I am embarking on a new journey - that way I can make better-informed decisions along the way. These women deserve that as well, they should be privy to what is probably happening on the other side of any conversation they have with a white guy they're interested in.

    There are plenty of white men interested in black women, I can tell you that for sure. I mean, some of the guys I know are thinking about it since I started dating my girl. All good, and I'm sure there will be some fits and starts in that process.

    All I'm saying here is that I have not found that first conversation leading up to, "Would you like to do something this weekend?" with most black women to be as easy to navigate as that same conversation with most women of other races.

    I've talked with another white guy in a relationship with a black woman about it, and he says the same thing. I know that's a small sample size, but I think our experiences are fairly representative of the issues inherent in that first conversation.

  4. I'm appreciative that other white men have chimed in and given their experiences with asking black women out. I will personally have to assess if I have a certain look on my face or give off certain body language that white men may find intimidating.

    I also suspect that most black women and white men don't have many opportunities to interact on a social level, and that if they interacted as part of an organization or project, the walls would come down.

    It seems a black woman would have an easier time being asked out by a white guy she interacted with on some level rather than a random guy she passed on the street or in a bar because there's some level of familiarity there.

  5. As a BW, I can confirm that I also have THE LOOK. It is intended to rebuff panhandlers, scam artists, muggers, potential molesters, etc. And it works pretty well, I must say.

    But I have to remember to turn it off, to go into safe mode when I'm talking to someone I might want to date. I go to my feminine state then, my happy place. Sisters, do the same. It has worked for me.

  6. @ David

    Thanks for adding your perspective.

    Regarding the "hard face" and "subconscious body armor" issue.

    Honestly as a black women who grew up in Africa, I probably would have had the same view of the "attitudes" of black women in America if I hadn't gone to a Historical Black College based in the black part of the city.

    It didn't take long for my sisters and I to develop the "hard face" and "attitude" AA women are known for. We actually called it "Putting on our Hard Face." This was especially, when we had to step off the campus. This was only about 4 years in undergrad, so image a good % of AA women, growing up and living majority of their lives in these neighborhoods.

    It is hard for most non-black people to understand. Also, many AA men dismiss or don't acknowledge that many AA women have reasons for this armor.

    As for BW/WM serious rlsps, there has always been interest for a certain % and it's growing. As the cultural and social restrictions on both sides keeps falling, it keep increasing.


  7. Hey guys,

    lol, Man up! Why be a big ol' chicken?

    I sometimes do not realize a guy is flirting until we have parted ways. There have been a few times when I am preparing for bed and then it hits me, "That guy was flirting". Dog gone it! And, he was cute! If a woman's male family members or friends "step up" it simply could be they are concern for her well is not all about race.


  8. No offense I nor my friends have ever said,
    "Putting on our Hard Face." Different strokes I suppose.


  9. @ NijaG...You are correct here:
    "It is hard for most non-black people to understand. Also, many AA men dismiss or don't acknowledge that many AA women have reasons for this armor."


  10. I also suspect that most black women and white men don't have many opportunities to interact on a social level, and that if they interacted as part of an organization or project, the walls would come down.

    This definitely plays a part in the issue. Some of the BW I know in IR either grew up or chose to live in predominately white or very racially diverse communities. If they didn't, then it was either through work or various social settings (volunteer work, activities groups, etc). With the rest, it was through online dating.


  11. No offense I nor my friends have ever said,
    "Putting on our Hard Face." Different strokes I suppose.



    Great for you that you didn't have deal with certain experiences that made such a thing necessary. That phrase was a saying between me, my sisters and fellow countrywomen.

    These were my undergrad years before I had a car. So I had to walk and take the bus/metro everywhere. Believe me, after a couple of street/sexual harassment incidences, you'll develop some sort of armor too.


  12. Hey, Ann -

    It's not a question of being "chicken". We're not afraid of black women, despite what Jeremy Nelson wrote in this post. In fact, the whole idea is ridiculous.

    The point that these guys who wrote in are making are that they're anxious about offending the woman, or, that they're reading her body language as "not interested, stay away from me", or, that they assume right from the start that she's probably not interested because so many African-American women don't want to date outside their race.

    All of those things add up to the fact that the white guy will feel like he's pushing himself on her, that he's being too aggressive in his approach. And, I assume you know this, but maybe you don't - the overwhelming majority of white men in the U.S. have it drilled into their heads from boyhood onward that you DO NOT push yourself on a woman, that it is ALWAYS WRONG to be aggressive in any way towards a woman, no matter what the circumstances. There is simply no excuse in that culture for a man to do that.

    So, they don't want to feel like they're doing that. And, like any person, they then probably choose the option that's easier, which is dating an Asian woman, a white woman, a Hispanic woman. All very easy in terms of that first date request, and they're all pretty interested in dating a white guy, and they make that plain right up front.

    I date a black woman now, so I'm on the side of IR, and I'm not typing any of this to burst anyone's bubble, but some of the problems black women mention about getting white guys to ask them out can be traced back to (surprise!) black women. Yeah, some of it is due to cultural and historical crap, and some of it is due to statistics showing the overwhelming majority of African-American women (unlike their men) do not want to date outside their race, but a lot of it is due to a white guy getting visual and verbal cues that he reads as, "Don't bother".

    So he doesn't. He says to himself, "It looks like she's not interested, and I don't want to be a jerk and keep pressing the point, so I need to just back off."

    I am trying to be truthful, I apologize if this offended anyone.

  13. One more thing, as long as we're all being honest.

    I have dated two white guys, and each relationship lasted a long time, so I hung around with his friends quite a bit.

    A certain percentage of white guys will date black women, and that percentage seems to be growing all the time. But only a tiny, tiny percentage of white guys will date fat women, no matter what their race. And that tiny, tiny percentage is not growing, not even a little bit.

    If you are a black woman that describes yourself as "big", "thick", "BBW", or some other euphemism for being 50 lbs. overweight, then dating white guys is probably not going to be happening for you. There just aren't a lot of white guys that are going to be attracted to you, plain and simple.

  14. NijaG said:

    This definitely plays a part in the issue. Some of the BW I know in IR either grew up or chose to live in predominately white or very racially diverse communities. If they didn't, then it was either through work or various social settings (volunteer work, activities groups, etc). With the rest, it was through online dating.

    I'm involved with very diverse organizations and I'm eager to see if this pans out to be true: that as I interact with whitemen in the groups, friendships may develop.

    Also regarding the "face" I think black women have been taught that they have to protect themselves, whereas white women have been taught that they will always be protected (by society at large). So I think this definitely plays a part in why black women universally are seen as hard. I will have to make a conscious effort to look feminine when I'm in social situations!

  15. @Jean -

    I cosign your comment about weight. I hang around a lot of WM in their early 30's because that's the age of my boyfriend, and I can tell you, they are not going to be dating the big sisters. Not gonna happen.

    I hear BW say, "Why doesn't he make a move?", and if you saw the woman saying it, you would know why. Because 5'6" and 210 pounds is not attractive on any race of woman.

    And then they say, "He should just like me for who I am". But, nobody is attracted to someone initially for what is inside, only what is on the outside, because that's what they can see. Do these black women think that the rules of attraction should be suspended just for them? Everyone sees what you look like, it's important.

    These guys have WW that want to date them, AW (very petite and thin) that want to date them, and HW that want to date them, they have a veritable buffet of women that want them.

    Any BW can compete with any of these women, provided things are mostly equal. But a black woman that is huge and overweight knocks herself out of contention right from the start.

    I am attractive, but I am no beauty queen. I'm hardly Halle Berry. I'm a fairly dark sister and I wear glasses, and I don't spend a lot of time on my hair. But I'm fit and lean and I excercise. You would not believe how many white guys hit on me all the time. They see me with other white guys, think I'm down with the swirl, I'm a body shape they like, and it just happens over and over again. If I didn't have a boyfriend, I could go out on a date with a white guuy every Friday night for the next 5 years.

    And I cn assure that I am just NOT that pretty, I am not like a model or anything.

    SO black women can easily compete for any man, but, ladies, you have to be a normal weight. Or at least close.

  16. Jean said...

    As a BW, I can confirm that I also have THE LOOK. It is intended to rebuff panhandlers, scam artists, muggers, potential molesters, etc. And it works pretty well, I must say.

    LOL I'm privy to THE LOOK as well.

    @ David,

    What about the white guys that stare at you as though they've never seen a beautiful woman before and turns into Elmer Fudd if you smile back? I mean fellas we see you looking at us and we all know when a man is attracted to us. It gets pretty annoying when they stare and zombie-out if you smile back. You guys end up looking like total losers. It's enough to make a girl feel like science project. I really want to turn and say what's the matter? Haven't you seen a woman before? LOL

    Now don't get me wrong, I tend to have more wm approach me in working environments and social settings than I do out in public. But it happens so frequently, I have learned to just ignore it.

    I guess the zombie stare is better than:

    "Hey gurl...hey gurl...lemmee holla atchu real quick. What...huh? Eff u din, you ain't all dat ennyway."

  17. @Selena:

    I've seen that panicked look from white guys, too. They stare, you smile, and then it's like you can see them thinking, "okay, wasn't expecting that, now what should I do?"

    I'm in an IR right now that started the same way. When that happened, I smiled at him again, and said, "Isn't it a beautiful day?", because it was - we were on the waterfront in the city where I live, and it was just completely gorgeous that day. He snapped out of it, replied that it was, small talk ensued, everything seemed to be going well, and then, the conversation stalled.

    I was thinking, "Go ahead, ask for my phone number", but he didn't, so I said, "Well, I'll let you enjoy the rest of this day. I REALLY enjoyed talking to you (looking right at this face and smiling)".

    Nothing, so I turned around and walked away, kind of irritated. Then, I guess he must have thought about it a little more, and he ran after me, and caught up to me, and asked me if I'd like to go out with him sometime. I said, "What a great idea(I swear to God)!" As if that hadn't even occurred to me, lol.

    We're still seeing each other 14 months later, and I still give him a hard time about that day. He was hardly Mr. Smooth. He says it was not only the first time a BW ever showed any interest in him, but that I am the best-looking woman that was ever interested in him, and that he was surprised on both counts. That's his defense.

    But, yeah, sometimes you just want to shake them! Poor things; they're used to talking to WW, HW, AW, whatever, but the first time (or maybe even the first couple of times) they talk to a sister, they're a mess.

    Now, he's very comfortable talking to BW, and some of my friends are getting a little too comfortable talking to him, if you know what I mean. I've done all the prospecting, and hard work of digging, and I feel like some of them might be thinking about jumping my claim. But, anyway, that's a subject for another day...

  18. Excellent story Dawn,

    I'm glad you took that extra step and I'm quite sure your honey is too.

    LOL at your friends given him the ole, "I didn't know you liked black girls side-eye" treatment. I love it.

    Thanks for sharing!

  19. Dawn,

    Thank you for sharing your story. Your experience turned into a wonderful relationship, but I think it also highlights that it's not just on black women and our hang-ups.

    You can do everything right, and he still may not take that next step. In some of these cases, it has nothing to do with the woman - it was the man's own hang-ups. That's fine, no one is perfect, but I am concerned about this turning into another "black women are doing x,y,z wrong" as if the only reasons white men don't ask black women out is either they're not interested or the individual woman has a "don't bug me" look. The 1st anonymous poster seemed to focus on HIS hang-ups and presumptions, rather than what black women did or did not do.

    Based on my anecdotal experience, plenty of WW and HW have a similar look until they are engaged in conversation, at which point they may smile (and I'm thinking of environments like the grocery store, book store, and similar vs club or bar scenes, where I suspect both men and women have more "open" expressions due to certain social expectations). I'm just really concerned about the subtext that black women should individually vet men, but it's okay for white men to allow broad assumptions of black women to hold them back.

    I understand that white men have access to lots of women, and may not find it convenient to push through their own issues to simply speak to/ask a black women out. Fair enough. I just hope that black women are encouraged enough to know that HE'S the one missing out on a quality woman, and that she can keep it moving and be open until the next one comes along.

  20. Hello, Daphne (I LOVE that name, btw - so chic) -

    No, it's not just about us and our hangups, it's also about guys and their hang-ups.

    But, speaking of white guys specifically, yeah, you can say, "if he can't deal with his own issues and get past my issues/quirks/expectations/behavior when I first meet someone, then that's his problem because he's missing out."

    Except he's not missing out. Missing out on you, maybe, but he's not missing out. He doesn't have the problem of having enough quality women to choose from. A desirable WM (looks/personality/education/income) has a lot of dating options available to him. There are a lot of women that recognize value there and they aim to pursue it.

    In a perfect dating universe, where everyone is equal, yes, he'd be missing out, but that's not how the universe is stacked up. So, if white guys feel awkward about asking black women out, and you're a black woman that is interested in dating white men, then it's really not his problem - it's your problem, because you're the one that's not getting the result you want.

    Because, I can guarantee that he, like 99% of most WM, is not even thinking about dating a BW, because he has always been told, over and over again, that BW date BM. Period. Just as BW are told that BW date BM, period.

    You may find this difficult to believe, but most white guys are very surprised when you tell them that are many BW that would like to date WM. Very surprised, shocked, even. Most white guys genuinely believe that black women are completely closed off to them in terms of dating, that they will only date black guys. The few famous BW/WM couples they see, they chalk that up as a fluke.

    So, he doesn't look at himself being awkward around BW as too much of a problem, because he believes that there is probably no possibility of a relationship there, anyway. And, also, it's not like a quality white guy (looks/personality/income/education)is desperate for female company.

    This is where the fallacy of "waiting for the next one" rears it's ugly head. Until it becomes more common to see BW/WM couples, "the next one" (i.e, the next WM that is, or could be, interested in dating a BW) could be months away. Or longer, depending on your age and where you live.

    So, now we're back to it being your problem as a BW. And, if you're not really interested in dating WM, then, that's a different story.

    But, if you are interested, then you might have to put forth a little extra effort to help them get over their lack of initative or resolve when it comes to asking BW out.

    Is that fair? No, it sure isn't. It really isn't. I didn't think it was fair before I decided I might want to date out and I don't think it's fair now. Here is where I spare you the cliche of stating, "But, life isn't fair". Oops, guess I didn't spare you the cliche.

    Is it worth the extra hassle and effort? Well, I think it is, but I don't have an objective point of view now. I can't really say if it will be worth it to you as a BW.

    I'm glad I lingered a little longer in front of him (my boyfriend) that day, giving him my 100-watt smile, and I'm equally glad he finally got it together and ran after me when I left. I mean, we're really happy. We match up so well in every important aspect.

    But I can't predict anyone else's future.

    However, to repeat what I read on another BW's IR blog, it's worth pointing out that you cannot win if you don't play. You can't start on your way to being into a great relationship until you have that first date.

  21. Hi Dawn -

    Thank you for your response.

    A couple of things for clarity:

    You said:
    But, speaking of white guys specifically, yeah, you can say, "if he can't deal with his own issues and get past my issues/quirks/expectations/behavior when I first meet someone, then that's his problem because he's missing out."

    I NEVER stated any such thing in my post. I never stated that a man would have to get past my own quirks, issues, expectations, behavior, etc. My perspective is as a black woman who is open to all men, am comfortable with smiling and engaging in conversation with all men. I found your story interesting because you are open as well, and it still took you walking away, even after your extra effort, before your boyfriend got himself together to ask you out. That was my point - that black women who are open and carry themselves in that way can't be overly concerned with those men who can't push beyond their own issues (unlike your boyfriend). I don't have a problem with the extra effort. I think you did everything right in your initial meet and greet, and it turned out wonderfully. Doesn't always happen, and all I'm saying is, that's okay.

    Perhaps I should have not mentioned my anecdotal evidence on other women's facial expressions. I'm not advocating "the hard look." I'm responding to the notion that's one of the primary reasons white men don't approach black women in particular. Nevertheless, I don't want to belabor the point, so I'll end it here: I agree that black women, as a collective, need to soften our expressions.

    You said:
    Except he's not missing out. Missing out on you, maybe, but he's not missing out. He doesn't have the problem of having enough quality women to choose from.

    I acknowledged as much in the last paragraph of my original post. I was attempting to speak to the individual black woman who wonders why she's as bright and open and positively expressive as the next non-black woman, but may not be pursued further by an individual man. And it may have nothing to do with HER. All she can do is set herself apart as much as possible, show interest as much as possible. If it's not reciprocated, nothing to be done about it, so I stand firm on my point that yes, move on to the next one.

  22. @Anon April 3, 10:17 PM -

    How stupid of me. I just realized that you are only a troll, trying to start some stuff.

    And I took the time to reply to you....

    Well, hopefully, the blog owner will erase your comment and mine that refers to yours.

    Go somewhere else!

  23. @Daphne -

    I understood what you said; we're good.

    And I still stick to my previous statement, too - it's not fair. It's not fair that BW have to try a little harder in that specific dating scenario. And it's not fair that we, as BW, can do everything right, and because of all the other peripheral crap going on in that "initial meeting" scenario, still come up short, and not get what we want out of that interaction.

    But, unfortunately, that's the way it is. For now.

    But only for now.

  24. @Dawn

    Cosign with what you said, but the question then becomes, do I stick to my guns and just forget that guy and wait for the next one, or assume that at least some of the other factors mentioned are in play, and try a little longer that I usually would?

    I don't know what I'd do. I guess it depends on the situation and my frame of mind at the moment. I might spend a little more time trying with a white guy if I thought he was simply oblivious to the opportunity of dating this black chick as opposed to me thinking that he just wasn't interested. Yeah, I probably would.

    But I don't have an extreme amount of patience. Instead of one, I'd probably give it two tries and then call it quits and move on. These guys need to pick up on these things and get with it. I'm going to MAKE SURE he knows I'm interested. TWICE.

    And if he's still not getting a clue, then it's time to move on, as Daphne said. I mean, c'mon. Even if it's only two times, I'm still giving him twice as many opportunities to get my phone number. Cultural differences or not, he's gotta pick up on these signals.

  25. I think some of you women are making this harder than it should be.

    Just keep this simple fact in mind. If a man is interested, ultimately he'll find a way to pursue and express his interest. Our job is to accept or reject. I don't believe in women pursuing men. We can be flirty, friendly and receptive, but aggressively pursue? NO.

    Another thing is to not take "perceived" rejection personally or think it has to do with race. Just like you won't like or be attracted to every guy who pursues you, same thing for men.

    I say *perceived* because there could be other issues that have nothing to do with being a black woman.

    E.g Dawn's situation. I don't know what their initial conversation was, but he could have been married, engaged or in a rlsp, recently divorced. He could have been gay. He could have just been a tourist visiting for a few days. Or just a friendly guy holding a conversation with a pretty girl, but not looking to get into anything serious. There are all sorts of possible scenarios.

    So, while he may have been attracted to her, there could have been other issues that would have legitimately stopped him from asking her out.

    Also, after a certain age group, you're not going to find many guys who just pursue women they don't know off the street no matter how attractive. There has to be a certain context and environment for this to happen.

    Dating is a numbers game. Expand your options, get social. Mix and mingle with various people. Use tools such as online dating.

    For some BW, you have to get into the social circle and settings where there are white and non-blk men. The more they see you in their social circles and they see you're friendly, nice and normal and open, the higher the chances you'll start being asked out.


  26. @ Daphne

    I'm sorry but I meant that message for Dawn and I inadvertantly typed your name.

  27. My apologies, I realize I'm coming quite late to this convo.

    I have an issue with American white men, I too don't accept the white men don't know how to approach women excuse. I also don't accept the hard look on black women's faces bs either, I've watched white men approach ww,aw and hw with the snottiest looks on their faces. So I call bs again. I've watched and also personally experienced smiling and grinning, very attractive black women not getting play, only wanton stares. White American men need to grow a pair. The take that black women don't date out is NO LONGER TRUE! WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO, RENT A BILLBOARD?? Let me tell you what I think the real reasons are.

    1) Peer group pressure: what will other whites witnessing this think?

    2) Oh God, I got turned down by a black woman. It's OK when non black women turn you down (and often rudely), but it's catastrophic if a black woman turns you down.

    3) Will I be able to satisfy her sexually - The myth of the great black penis. Get over it, it's not true, black men bore me in and out of bed!

    4) What will the black males in the club/venue think, how will they react?
    Why all of a sudden are white men sensitive to the feelings of black men? Under any other circumstance white men wouldn't give a damn. Don't change now!

    This all boils down to a simple lack of courage on the part of white American males, I still say how can the men who conquered this earth; the quintessential alpha males be afraid of a black woman? Blessedly white men from other parts of the world are far more savvy with women in general and with black women specifically.

    Stop blaming it all on black women....... Now that I've gotten that off my chest I will address the supposed #1 excuse: The 'hard look' on black women's faces. I have a challenge for white American men. Start watching black men and begin to notice the 24/7/365 harassment that all black women above the age of 9 have to live with. When the black woman had the 'hard look' on her face, what was happening r/ the black males in the vicinity. I have experienced black males DELIBERATELY attempting to antagonize me because the white males in the venue/club were paying too much attention to me. In the US the white males shrink away, In Europe the offending black male gets his ass kicked out of the club by the patrons. So start being observant, since the big excuse is the look on our faces. Black women are the only ones who have a bad day, Becky, Ming and Maria are always giddy, happy open and receptive. Ha!! That's a good one!